I don’t post comments on social media anymore, except for BlueSky and here on Substack. There are so many rageballs on social media, and that includes women. I noticed the “trad” type are the worst, but mean people proliferate. Compared to other countries I’ve lived in, America just isn’t very nice anymore.
You are absolutely correct, we Americans have become bitterly divided & some of our most aggressive splits happen over things, which in the grand scheme of things, affect a very small percentage of the population in their daily lives.
Unfortunately for me, American politics are something I’m familiar with despite not being American- especially American social discourse. This particular overtly “hysterical female” framing of order isn’t new and I’ve heard it echoed in some way or another for about a decade. There are some things I always notice lacking in the analysis and conclusions: one being the a-historical context (the origin of such reactionary politics and obscuring the role of media spheres), the conflation of male chauvinists being a safe space for men rather than innately isolationist (Andrew Tate is the literal manifestation of clique politics, performative morality and asymmetrical accountability, with catchphrases to boot), reliance on ideological jargon and misplaced cause/effect rather than grounded material analysis (ie. the overpowered brattish woman tramples the emasculated man). A concerning conclusion can be naturally asserted.
I can see why this particular framing is attractive as it very neatly gives a reason for the obvious social split, especially for men I can see it as consoling. The problem is it’s far too neat, making it reductive, repetitive —not expansive at all, therefore self perpetuating.
I absolutely agree. This is giving villainizing women, once again, as the problem when really they are asking for respect and equality for everyone. And yet somehow that is divisive? Have you been on the debates happening on TikTok, YouTube, etc? Attempts to have calm and evidence-based discussions are met with vitriol and repeated MAGA talking points that have no basis in fact. There are attempts to bridge the gap, but the problem is a story has been told by the right that is being devoured by a section of the population. Just a reminder, only 23% of the population supposedly voted for the Cheeto, and I still have doubts about that. And so many of those, according to polls, were based on the economy. The issue isn’t women somehow gatekeeping the Democratic Party and their messaging. Women are still only 42% of congressional Democrats and 36% of the DNC leadership. The problem is the messaging devised by the moderate branch of the party did not engage with the working class because it didn’t directly address their problems in clear concise ways and didn’t address their grievances with the system as a whole. The entire electoral system been taken over by money ever since citizens united and that money is used to disseminate divisive rhetoric that, like this, places blame on groups of people instead of facing the real issues. It should be about how the poor are getting ripped off by the rich, but too many politicians are sponsored by corporations. So big money, lobbying, and propaganda is what messed up the party. Let’s not pretend this is because women said “you can’t sit with us”. That’s reductive and frankly bullshit.
I agree with most of what you wrote. I can say as an angry woman, that Trump is re-elected, I have been very exclusionary at times. I will take responsibility for not trying harder to get Bernie’s people at the table. Now Bernie and AOC are two of my favorite politicians. I don’t agree with a lot of the issues but I sure am progressing 😉
This is a great article. I can say I am so angry that Trump rose to power. I am angry he was re-elected. I am angry at the unconstitutional executive orders he continues to make. But I can see that if I don’t ask the kid, looking for somewhere to sit, to join me; then I am part of the DNC’s problem. We have to rid the country of hate and exclusion. We are all better than this.
I’m sorry, but if you need people to be nice to you over honesty and authenticity, then yes we have a problem. Categorizing those of us that are being authentic and labeling us, because there are social problems in America with one rotting root and it’s called white supremacy and those of you that don’t wanna see it for what it is, would rather aim at a portion of us, would rather look past the actual issue, to feel good about yourselves and blame those of us that are being authentic about it and just call us “mean girls” labeling us, clumping us all together in this group called “woke“ when you really don’t even know what that means; it’s just convenient for you, then fine do what you need to do to feel comfy. I don’t need nor do I want you to like me. I never asked you to like me. None of us in the “mean girl group“ need you to like us because we have drive to evolve. You have shown us that you don’t have that desire nor the nuts and bolts and when we state the obvious we are corrected by you as though your the librarians of the past reminding us to shush, because we are being too loud. White supremacy shuts down mean girl decorum doesn’t it. We’re not merely satisfied with a current state of politics in America. We not only want a change, we want something completely different. We are in the gut of authoritarianism and those of us that are desperately trying to do something about it, to build a fire—cause a belch, don’t care if you think we are mean. The Democratic party must evolve and we are charged to change it, and just being nice or agreeable hasn’t worked. Just getting along with the rest of you isn’t making racism, xenophobia, transphobia, homophobia, sexism, ageism, ableism, and white supremacy just melt away as the southern and northern poles and as our voting rights. It’s going to take a lot more than just being nice and agreeable to right these wrongs. You don’t have the answers so stop pretending that you do. Because if you did, then, none of these issues would still exist.
I know right now, by uttering these words that what I’m talking about right now are falling on deaf ears, so I guess I’ll just stop talking because I’m positive I’m going to drown in ridiculous comments. In fact, I don’t even know why I commented in the first place, but I couldn’t take listening to this absolute bullshit. All I know is that I’m one of the people that was cheering Al Green on when he stood up in descent against Trump while the rest of you were likely thinking he was being a “mean girl”. Did you also think Malcolm X was being a mean girl? Did you think Rosa Parks was being a mean girl? I can go on but I’m sure I’m being a mean girl right now. I’m trans. That definitely makes me a mean girl with my woke agenda. I’m hurting everyone’s feelings right now, rocking the boat outside this cafeteria. Give me a break! Meanwhile, actual children are being denied free lunches.
Restacking this Mean girls article because I think this article is a good example of sophisticated manipulation and shifting blame, using partial truth. The shift to red isn’t just because of mean girl energy, the supporting data and arguments are weak, fail to show a direct correlation. Half truths in here. MeToo movement pointed towards the massive problem we have in the society of abuse, and the telegram group Rape Chat of 70k men, proves it. But yes it was taken out of context, few bad actors are everywhere and the misogynistic right played a huge role in inflating those stories while totally missing the point of the movement. They did the same to BLM (ain’t about white people, it’s about police brutality)
My argument isn’t that it was the only factor, but it definitely was a significant one. I suggest talking to more working-class Black men to get their perspective on these issues.
Until American women (who are Democrats) take accountability for their actions, the Democrats won’t be taken seriously. You don’t have to listen to me, but eventually you’ll have to accept that you’re losing.
Please read this, and try to imagine how their country got to this point, how can US get there? I believe we are almost there, first the women, then kids, and btw yes men do suffer, but only in silence…
Perhaps you can preach that to the millions of men who harm women on daily basis. Abuse is heavily under reported, but you want to stop people from speaking up? You ever wondered about one man harming multiple women in the course of his life, never stopped or opposed, one even made it to the highest office in the country. I acknowledge there are bad actors in these movements, but instead of advocating fair and transparent dialogue, you tell women to shut up and take it. Women (who you assume are all democrats, or prolly just focusing on the women you want to hate) and black men (who are also democrats) are just two pawns in the misogynistic society. And so are you, this articles proves it.
This is what you get when news became a 24x7 infotainment for profit industry. The majority of voters do not want to hear boring policy, but reality show false issue nonsense to appease the masses - grievance politics. Accusing Dems of “Mean Girl Politics” is while ignoring the hate, fear & racism the GOP peddles is “whataboutism” at its best. If you are trying to argue “identity politics” is why the Dems lost the Presidency to the worst candidate ever - then it’s not obvious from the responses. The point you’re missing is how these target groups get credible information to make informed decisions on issues & vote for their Representatives.
I’m not sure what you all are “whining” about, but it’s all micro-targeted BS to cause division - cherry picked hot button topics to distract you from the fact a felon, adjudicated rapist & traitor was running for a term wanting to turn the US into Hungary or Russia.
Honestly, I’m not sure what articles you could ever share that would defend the lunacy & fake science JFK Jr peddles. His own family stated he was dangerous. Again, another issue of presenting false equivalency - a lawyer who has no medical, virology or epidemiology training as an expert vs people who have PHDs & perform research in these fields. It rejects basic logic & reasoning.
True. I have a relative who witnessed this in her elite liberal high school. I felt that it made her and maybe others sympathetic to the causes that these radical right students stood for. Not helpful to us. Now at Harvard. who knows what it’s like.
I call BS on this diatribe. “If Democrats want to regain their role as a big-tent party, they must rediscover genuine debate, coalition-building, and a commitment to labor issues that transcend identity tropes. A more inclusive approach—grounded in listening rather than lecturing—could restore the moral force the party once claimed.” Reality is that the “moral superiority” of the right is not engaging in genuine debate and coalition building. They have the majority in all 3 branches and have done nothing to unite the country, protect the underserved and vulnerable among their own voters, and they continue to promote an ideology of othering.
Ok this mean girls article is irritating in many ways. And yet, many true points. The problem for instance that i see in th extreme aspect ok “woke” is the intolerance of those with deeply held beliefs/values that go against some things others want to shove acceptance down their throats. While i dont feel anyone not hetero should be shamed for who they are, many people believe what they do is a sin. I dont believe that, but hating them for this generational and/or religious perception is equally divisive & lacking compassion. Why the sexually divergent feel a need to have a Parade esp through say, highly Catholic neighborhoods like S.Boston, a predominantly Catholic neighborhood, is aggressive. It isn’t going to bring sympathy to their own minority. To some, being gay is as offensive as being a neonazi is to others. Having empathy for such people locked in their limited views because of cultures they were raised in and whatever other issues have caused them to be intolerant or haters, and not trying to aggressively change their minds and just Accept Us, would cause less social conflicts. Person to person connections are what can melt away the disconnect—or strengthen it. Also i too believe the US isnt ready to elect a woman president—and i believe a lot of women are responsible for this. We have more potential votes thn men don’t we? It’s not just men who vote! I felt it was a foolish choice of VP when Biden ran for this reason, and sadly, my opinion was validated. Because our nation had swung so far toward social advancement (?left?) (though it was a wonderful period full of hope), in so many ways, during the Obama period, the pendulum swung as far the other way, allowing Trump, a Russian tool, to become president and try to start a rebellion by microtargeting all who felt resentment —some of whom were truly odious tiny factions, like haters (neonazis, KKK), due to technology of social media, and we arrive here. Dems fucked up. So did the fools who thought Not voting because of 1 issue would send a “message.” All it did was further enable the wannabe soviet union again to advance this disaster we are now facing. Imho
I agree with this overall idea. I’ll give two examples. One, When I post a dissenting opinion about what the Democrats are doing, I am viciously attacked as if I belong to MAGA. Two, Nancy Pelosi has made way too many executive choices for the entire party. For the most part, her work has been admirable. However, Joe Biden may have won against Trump. We’ll never know, especially if Trump really did unfairly gain votes through gerrymandering and bomb threats. In addition, Pelosi’s choice for Speaker of the House is too spineless to fight the Trump regime. A sit-in as a protest during Trump’s joint address was weak and ineffective.
Você está coberta de razão,Lisa. No entanto, é preciso considerar a diferença cultural, o avanço tecnológico de cada país, e principalmente, a independência dos “grilhões” culturais de cada lugar.
So, you are happy now, right? RFK and Tutsi Gabbard are well respected in the Trump administration, which working for America. You could also join them.
I don’t post comments on social media anymore, except for BlueSky and here on Substack. There are so many rageballs on social media, and that includes women. I noticed the “trad” type are the worst, but mean people proliferate. Compared to other countries I’ve lived in, America just isn’t very nice anymore.
The standard deviation for kindness is off in the United States I completely agree. It wasn’t always like that.
You are absolutely correct, we Americans have become bitterly divided & some of our most aggressive splits happen over things, which in the grand scheme of things, affect a very small percentage of the population in their daily lives.
What country is nice!
Iceland. Norway. New Zealand. Canada. Switzerland. Just think of democratic, non-aggressive countries.
Unfortunately for me, American politics are something I’m familiar with despite not being American- especially American social discourse. This particular overtly “hysterical female” framing of order isn’t new and I’ve heard it echoed in some way or another for about a decade. There are some things I always notice lacking in the analysis and conclusions: one being the a-historical context (the origin of such reactionary politics and obscuring the role of media spheres), the conflation of male chauvinists being a safe space for men rather than innately isolationist (Andrew Tate is the literal manifestation of clique politics, performative morality and asymmetrical accountability, with catchphrases to boot), reliance on ideological jargon and misplaced cause/effect rather than grounded material analysis (ie. the overpowered brattish woman tramples the emasculated man). A concerning conclusion can be naturally asserted.
I can see why this particular framing is attractive as it very neatly gives a reason for the obvious social split, especially for men I can see it as consoling. The problem is it’s far too neat, making it reductive, repetitive —not expansive at all, therefore self perpetuating.
I absolutely agree. This is giving villainizing women, once again, as the problem when really they are asking for respect and equality for everyone. And yet somehow that is divisive? Have you been on the debates happening on TikTok, YouTube, etc? Attempts to have calm and evidence-based discussions are met with vitriol and repeated MAGA talking points that have no basis in fact. There are attempts to bridge the gap, but the problem is a story has been told by the right that is being devoured by a section of the population. Just a reminder, only 23% of the population supposedly voted for the Cheeto, and I still have doubts about that. And so many of those, according to polls, were based on the economy. The issue isn’t women somehow gatekeeping the Democratic Party and their messaging. Women are still only 42% of congressional Democrats and 36% of the DNC leadership. The problem is the messaging devised by the moderate branch of the party did not engage with the working class because it didn’t directly address their problems in clear concise ways and didn’t address their grievances with the system as a whole. The entire electoral system been taken over by money ever since citizens united and that money is used to disseminate divisive rhetoric that, like this, places blame on groups of people instead of facing the real issues. It should be about how the poor are getting ripped off by the rich, but too many politicians are sponsored by corporations. So big money, lobbying, and propaganda is what messed up the party. Let’s not pretend this is because women said “you can’t sit with us”. That’s reductive and frankly bullshit.
I agree with most of what you wrote. I can say as an angry woman, that Trump is re-elected, I have been very exclusionary at times. I will take responsibility for not trying harder to get Bernie’s people at the table. Now Bernie and AOC are two of my favorite politicians. I don’t agree with a lot of the issues but I sure am progressing 😉
Thanks for your feedback!
This is a great article. I can say I am so angry that Trump rose to power. I am angry he was re-elected. I am angry at the unconstitutional executive orders he continues to make. But I can see that if I don’t ask the kid, looking for somewhere to sit, to join me; then I am part of the DNC’s problem. We have to rid the country of hate and exclusion. We are all better than this.
🤣
I don’t know what Democratic meetings you have been attending?
I’m a cisgender, straight man, Brenda! Democrats don’t want me at their meetings!
I’m kidding, obviously. But also I’m kinda not.
Bad, I am working on being more open minded, you can sit with me if you don’t mind a work in progress.
Baz not auto correct
Lech Walesa risked his life and suffered incarceration, but he and his Velvet Revolution beat the Soviets.
I pledge to do all I can. That's all I can do.
I’m sorry, but if you need people to be nice to you over honesty and authenticity, then yes we have a problem. Categorizing those of us that are being authentic and labeling us, because there are social problems in America with one rotting root and it’s called white supremacy and those of you that don’t wanna see it for what it is, would rather aim at a portion of us, would rather look past the actual issue, to feel good about yourselves and blame those of us that are being authentic about it and just call us “mean girls” labeling us, clumping us all together in this group called “woke“ when you really don’t even know what that means; it’s just convenient for you, then fine do what you need to do to feel comfy. I don’t need nor do I want you to like me. I never asked you to like me. None of us in the “mean girl group“ need you to like us because we have drive to evolve. You have shown us that you don’t have that desire nor the nuts and bolts and when we state the obvious we are corrected by you as though your the librarians of the past reminding us to shush, because we are being too loud. White supremacy shuts down mean girl decorum doesn’t it. We’re not merely satisfied with a current state of politics in America. We not only want a change, we want something completely different. We are in the gut of authoritarianism and those of us that are desperately trying to do something about it, to build a fire—cause a belch, don’t care if you think we are mean. The Democratic party must evolve and we are charged to change it, and just being nice or agreeable hasn’t worked. Just getting along with the rest of you isn’t making racism, xenophobia, transphobia, homophobia, sexism, ageism, ableism, and white supremacy just melt away as the southern and northern poles and as our voting rights. It’s going to take a lot more than just being nice and agreeable to right these wrongs. You don’t have the answers so stop pretending that you do. Because if you did, then, none of these issues would still exist.
I know right now, by uttering these words that what I’m talking about right now are falling on deaf ears, so I guess I’ll just stop talking because I’m positive I’m going to drown in ridiculous comments. In fact, I don’t even know why I commented in the first place, but I couldn’t take listening to this absolute bullshit. All I know is that I’m one of the people that was cheering Al Green on when he stood up in descent against Trump while the rest of you were likely thinking he was being a “mean girl”. Did you also think Malcolm X was being a mean girl? Did you think Rosa Parks was being a mean girl? I can go on but I’m sure I’m being a mean girl right now. I’m trans. That definitely makes me a mean girl with my woke agenda. I’m hurting everyone’s feelings right now, rocking the boat outside this cafeteria. Give me a break! Meanwhile, actual children are being denied free lunches.
Restacking this Mean girls article because I think this article is a good example of sophisticated manipulation and shifting blame, using partial truth. The shift to red isn’t just because of mean girl energy, the supporting data and arguments are weak, fail to show a direct correlation. Half truths in here. MeToo movement pointed towards the massive problem we have in the society of abuse, and the telegram group Rape Chat of 70k men, proves it. But yes it was taken out of context, few bad actors are everywhere and the misogynistic right played a huge role in inflating those stories while totally missing the point of the movement. They did the same to BLM (ain’t about white people, it’s about police brutality)
“Hit dogs holler”
My argument isn’t that it was the only factor, but it definitely was a significant one. I suggest talking to more working-class Black men to get their perspective on these issues.
Until American women (who are Democrats) take accountability for their actions, the Democrats won’t be taken seriously. You don’t have to listen to me, but eventually you’ll have to accept that you’re losing.
Please read this, and try to imagine how their country got to this point, how can US get there? I believe we are almost there, first the women, then kids, and btw yes men do suffer, but only in silence…
https://open.substack.com/pub/alitabrizi/p/us-marine-murdered-inside-us-military?r=53q6fi&utm_medium=ios
Perhaps you can preach that to the millions of men who harm women on daily basis. Abuse is heavily under reported, but you want to stop people from speaking up? You ever wondered about one man harming multiple women in the course of his life, never stopped or opposed, one even made it to the highest office in the country. I acknowledge there are bad actors in these movements, but instead of advocating fair and transparent dialogue, you tell women to shut up and take it. Women (who you assume are all democrats, or prolly just focusing on the women you want to hate) and black men (who are also democrats) are just two pawns in the misogynistic society. And so are you, this articles proves it.
This is what you get when news became a 24x7 infotainment for profit industry. The majority of voters do not want to hear boring policy, but reality show false issue nonsense to appease the masses - grievance politics. Accusing Dems of “Mean Girl Politics” is while ignoring the hate, fear & racism the GOP peddles is “whataboutism” at its best. If you are trying to argue “identity politics” is why the Dems lost the Presidency to the worst candidate ever - then it’s not obvious from the responses. The point you’re missing is how these target groups get credible information to make informed decisions on issues & vote for their Representatives.
I’m not sure what you all are “whining” about, but it’s all micro-targeted BS to cause division - cherry picked hot button topics to distract you from the fact a felon, adjudicated rapist & traitor was running for a term wanting to turn the US into Hungary or Russia.
Honestly, I’m not sure what articles you could ever share that would defend the lunacy & fake science JFK Jr peddles. His own family stated he was dangerous. Again, another issue of presenting false equivalency - a lawyer who has no medical, virology or epidemiology training as an expert vs people who have PHDs & perform research in these fields. It rejects basic logic & reasoning.
listened 2 min into this article, and that was it. Wrote certainly by David James Vance or Musk himself!
“Hit dogs holler”
You barked first for more than 30min in this word diarrhea. oust!
True. I have a relative who witnessed this in her elite liberal high school. I felt that it made her and maybe others sympathetic to the causes that these radical right students stood for. Not helpful to us. Now at Harvard. who knows what it’s like.
I call BS on this diatribe. “If Democrats want to regain their role as a big-tent party, they must rediscover genuine debate, coalition-building, and a commitment to labor issues that transcend identity tropes. A more inclusive approach—grounded in listening rather than lecturing—could restore the moral force the party once claimed.” Reality is that the “moral superiority” of the right is not engaging in genuine debate and coalition building. They have the majority in all 3 branches and have done nothing to unite the country, protect the underserved and vulnerable among their own voters, and they continue to promote an ideology of othering.
Ok this mean girls article is irritating in many ways. And yet, many true points. The problem for instance that i see in th extreme aspect ok “woke” is the intolerance of those with deeply held beliefs/values that go against some things others want to shove acceptance down their throats. While i dont feel anyone not hetero should be shamed for who they are, many people believe what they do is a sin. I dont believe that, but hating them for this generational and/or religious perception is equally divisive & lacking compassion. Why the sexually divergent feel a need to have a Parade esp through say, highly Catholic neighborhoods like S.Boston, a predominantly Catholic neighborhood, is aggressive. It isn’t going to bring sympathy to their own minority. To some, being gay is as offensive as being a neonazi is to others. Having empathy for such people locked in their limited views because of cultures they were raised in and whatever other issues have caused them to be intolerant or haters, and not trying to aggressively change their minds and just Accept Us, would cause less social conflicts. Person to person connections are what can melt away the disconnect—or strengthen it. Also i too believe the US isnt ready to elect a woman president—and i believe a lot of women are responsible for this. We have more potential votes thn men don’t we? It’s not just men who vote! I felt it was a foolish choice of VP when Biden ran for this reason, and sadly, my opinion was validated. Because our nation had swung so far toward social advancement (?left?) (though it was a wonderful period full of hope), in so many ways, during the Obama period, the pendulum swung as far the other way, allowing Trump, a Russian tool, to become president and try to start a rebellion by microtargeting all who felt resentment —some of whom were truly odious tiny factions, like haters (neonazis, KKK), due to technology of social media, and we arrive here. Dems fucked up. So did the fools who thought Not voting because of 1 issue would send a “message.” All it did was further enable the wannabe soviet union again to advance this disaster we are now facing. Imho
I agree with this overall idea. I’ll give two examples. One, When I post a dissenting opinion about what the Democrats are doing, I am viciously attacked as if I belong to MAGA. Two, Nancy Pelosi has made way too many executive choices for the entire party. For the most part, her work has been admirable. However, Joe Biden may have won against Trump. We’ll never know, especially if Trump really did unfairly gain votes through gerrymandering and bomb threats. In addition, Pelosi’s choice for Speaker of the House is too spineless to fight the Trump regime. A sit-in as a protest during Trump’s joint address was weak and ineffective.
This is stupid. I do admit to having cats, though.
No. You just have no sense of humor.
fantastic!
What do you mean?
Você está coberta de razão,Lisa. No entanto, é preciso considerar a diferença cultural, o avanço tecnológico de cada país, e principalmente, a independência dos “grilhões” culturais de cada lugar.
So, you are happy now, right? RFK and Tutsi Gabbard are well respected in the Trump administration, which working for America. You could also join them.